ANNOUNCER: TONIGHT ON SHOWCASE WITH BARBARA KELLAR INTERIM PRESIDENT AT NORTHERN KENTUCKY UNIVERSITY, BONITA BROWN.

STAY TUNED.

SHOWCASE STARTS RIGHT NOW.

[MUSIC] KELLAR: HI, I'M BARBARA KELLAR.

WELCOME TO SHOWCASE.

WE HAVE A REALLY WONDERFUL, BEAUTIFUL GUEST TODAY, BONITA BROWN, WHO IS THE INTERIM PRESIDENT AT NKU, NORTHERN KENTUCKY UNIVERSITY, JUST RIGHT ACROSS THE RIVER.

SO BONITA, WELCOME TO SHOWCASE.

BROWN: THANK YOU.

I'M EXCITED TO BE HERE.

KELLAR: GOOD, GOOD.

WE WANT TO KNOW ALL ABOUT YOU AND WHAT YOU'RE DOING AND WHAT'S HAPPENING AT NKU.

SO START WITH TELLING US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOUR BACKGROUND.

BROWN: ABSOLUTELY.

I'M ORIGINALLY FROM NORTH CAROLINA.

I GREW UP NEAR WINSTON-SALEM, NORTH CAROLINA, WENT TO COLLEGE AT WAKE FOREST UNIVERSITY FOR UNDERGRAD AND FOR LAW SCHOOL.

SO, I AM A DOUBLE DEACON THROUGH AND THROUGH.

WHEN I WENT TO LAW SCHOOL, I ACTUALLY DID NOT PLAN TO PRACTICE LAW, SO I DABBLED IN A LITTLE LEGAL SIDE AT CORPORATE HERE AND THERE, AND THEN I LANDED IN HIGHER EDUCATION.

AND FROM THERE MY CAREER JUST TOOK OFF.

I WAS CHIEF OF STAFF AT SEVERAL UNIVERSITIES.

I WAS A VICE PRESIDENT.

I WAS AN ATTORNEY FOR TWO UNIVERSITIES, AND SO JUST HAD A VARIED CAREER IN HIGHER EDUCATION.

I WENT TO DC AND IN DC I WORKED IN THE NONPROFIT WORLD THAT WAS STILL ASSOCIATED WITH HIGHER EDUCATION.

KELLAR: YEAH.

BROWN: AND ALL ALONG MY GOAL WAS STUDENT SUCCESS.

AND SO WHEN I CAME TO NKU TO BE THE VP FOR STRATEGY, I WAS IMPRESSED NOT ONLY WITH THE JOB ITSELF, BUT WITH THE WHOLE CAMPUS AND THE COMMUNITY.

AND SO I WAS WORKING IN THAT ROLE UNTIL I WAS APPOINTED INTERIM PRESIDENT.

KELLAR: WOW.

A RAPID RISE TO A REALLY, REALLY WONDERFUL PLACE RIGHT NOW.

AND DID YOU HAVE TO DO A LOT OF HOMEWORK?

BROWN: THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.

I'VE ACTUALLY BEEN IN HIGHER ED FOR 20 YEARS NOW, AND I TELL PEOPLE THERE WAS NOT A LOT THAT I HAVE NOT SEEN IN HIGHER ED UNTIL COVID.

COVID BROUGHT AN ENTIRELY NEW DYNAMIC.

BUT I'VE SEEN SO MUCH IN HIGHER EDUCATION THAT I THINK IT PREPARED ME FOR THE ROLE NOT ONLY AS VP FOR STRATEGY, BUT ALSO AS INTERIM PRESIDENT.

I'VE WORKED WITH VERY CLOSELY WITH AT LEAST SIX UNIVERSITY PRESIDENTS, AND SO WORKING THAT CLOSELY, I'VE SEEN A LOT OF THE WORK, I'VE SEEN THE STRATEGIES, I'VE SEEN THE CHALLENGES.

SO I WAS VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE ROLE, ALTHOUGH IT IS DIFFERENT WHEN YOU'RE IN THE SEAT.

KELLAR: OH YES.

BROWN: BUT I WAS FAMILIAR WITH A LOT OF AROUND THE ROLE.

KELLAR: WERE THERE CHALLENGES THAT YOU HADN'T THOUGHT YOU WOULD EVER MEET, SOMETHING REALLY UNIQUE, GOOD OR BAD?

BROWN: WELL, AGAIN, I THINK IT'S AN OUTGROWTH OF COVID, BUT I THINK THE GREAT RESIGNATION IS SOMETHING I DON'T THINK I'VE EVER SEEN IN HIGHER EDUCATION.

USUALLY WHEN UNIVERSITIES HAVE JOB OPENINGS, WE GET HUNDREDS OF APPLICANTS.

WE'RE NOT SEEING THAT THESE DAYS, AND SO THAT'S NEW FOR US.

AND SO NOW WE'RE HAVING TO BE EXTRA DILIGENT ABOUT OUR JOB SEARCHES, WHERE WE'RE ADVERTISING AND REALLY FINDING THAT TALENT TO BRING TO THE UNIVERSITY.

SO THAT'S NEW FOR ME IN HIGHER EDUCATION.

KELLAR: YEAH, WELL, A PERSON SMART ENOUGH TO BE THE PRESIDENT IS ALSO SMART ENOUGH TO KNOW WHAT A CHALLENGING JOB IT CAN BE, I'M SURE.

BROWN: ABSOLUTELY.

KELLAR: AND SO ARE YOU INVOLVED IN THE SEARCH COMMITTEE FOR THE NEW PRESIDENT?

BROWN: I ACTUALLY AM NOT.

OUR BOARD MEMBERS ARE TAKING THE LEAD ALONG WITH FACULTY, STAFF AND COMMUNITY LEADERS.

I WAS ABLE TO PRESENT TO THAT SEARCH COMMITTEE JUST TWO WEEKS AGO.

THEY WANTED TO KNOW WHAT IT WAS LIKE IN THE ROLE, WHAT ADVICE I WOULD HAVE FOR THE NEW PERSON AND WHAT QUALITIES WOULD BE GOOD IN THE NEW PERSON.

SO I FELT VALUED THAT THEY ASKED MY OPINION ABOUT THAT, AND SO I WAS ABLE TO PROVIDE THEM WITH SOME INSIGHTS.

KELLAR: RIGHT.

AND WHAT JOB WILL YOU GO BACK TO?

BROWN: I WILL GO BACK TO MY VICE PRESIDENT AND CHIEF STRATEGY OFFICER ROLE.

AGAIN, I'M LEADING OUR STRATEGIC PLANNING EFFORTS, WHICH IS SINGULARLY FOCUSED ON STUDENT SUCCESS.

NKU HAS HAD A LOT OF SUCCESS LATELY IN GRADUATION AND RETENTION OF STUDENTS.

AND SO THAT'S IN MY AREA IN THAT STRATEGIC PLAN.

SO I WILL GO BACK TO THAT, REFOCUS IT AND RE-HONE IT ON OUR CURRENT SITUATION WITH OUR STUDENTS AND JUST KEEP US MOVING FORWARD IN OUR STUDENT SUCCESS WORK.

KELLAR: YEAH.

I'VE READ AND I DON'T KNOW HOW ACCURATE IT IS THAT COLLEGE ADMISSIONS ARE DOWN.

IS THAT TRUE AT NKU?

BROWN: IT IS TRUE ALL ACROSS THE NATION.

KELLAR: THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT.

BROWN: FOR A COUPLE OF REASONS.

ONE, JUST THE SHEER NUMBER OF 18 YEAR OLDS IS DECREASING ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

SO YOU JUST DON'T HAVE THAT LARGE PIPELINE ANYMORE GOING INTO COLLEGE.

AND THEN PARTICULARLY IN THIS AREA, THE ECONOMY IS DOING WELL.

SO THERE ARE A LOT OF JOBS THAT STUDENTS CAN HAVE RIGHT NOW.

AND SO THEY'RE BALANCING, DO I GO TO WORK NOW OR DO I GO TO SCHOOL?

A LOT OF STUDENTS ARE DOING BOTH.

AND SO WE'RE BEING VERY STRATEGIC ABOUT WHAT OUR ENROLLMENT LOOKS LIKE IN LIGHT OF THAT.

AND SO WE'RE LOOKING AT ADULT LEARNERS, WE'RE LOOKING AT HYBRID AND ONLINE COURSES.

WE'RE BEING VERY STRATEGIC ABOUT HOW TO CAPTURE THIS NEXT STUDENT POPULATION THAT WANTS TO EARN A DEGREE.

KELLAR: YEAH, WELL, THERE'S A WHOLE FIELD OUT THERE TO BE TAPPED, I'M SURE.

AND THAT'S YOUR -- THAT'S A VERY BIG PART OF WHAT YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO DO.

BROWN: ABSOLUTELY.

WE ARE TALKING WITH CORPORATIONS AND OUR CORPORATE PARTNERS, AND THEY'RE LOOKING FOR WAYS TO ENGAGE AND PARTNER WITH US FOR INTERNSHIPS FOR OUR STUDENTS THAT EVENTUALLY WILL LEAD TO CAREERS.

SO WE'RE DEFINITELY GOING TO BE BUILDING ON THOSE PARTNERSHIPS.

KELLAR: YEAH, I WAS INTERESTED IN YOUR COLLEGE OF INFORMATICS.

BROWN: YES.

KELLAR: TELL US ABOUT THAT.

BROWN: THAT IS AN AMAZING SCHOOL.

THERE WAS A LOT OF EFFORT PUT INTO BUILDING THAT COLLEGE OF INFORMATICS.

AND AS YOU KNOW, SUBJECTS LIKE CYBERSECURITY, EVEN ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE.

THERE'S A LOT OF TRACKS IN THAT AREA THAT ARE REALLY VERY POPULAR WITH PEOPLE.

AND SO WE ALSO, THAT'S WHERE OUR SCHOOL OF PR IS ALSO IN THAT SCHOOL.

AND SO THEY ARE RAPIDLY DEVELOPING NEW PROGRAMS TO KEEP UP WITH THE TIMES.

THEY'RE DOING RESEARCH PROJECTS.

THEY ARE JUST DOING AMAZING WORK IN CYBERSECURITY.

WE HAVE A STUDENT CYBERSECURITY TEAM AND THEY WIN HACKATHONS ALL THE TIME.

KELLAR: WHAT'S A HACKATHON?

BROWN: A HACKATHON IS WHEN THEY LITERALLY TRY TO BREAK INTO DIFFERENT COMPUTER SYSTEMS AND SEE HOW QUICKLY THEY CAN DO IT.

AND THAT HELPS THOSE COMPANIES OR THOSE ENTITIES REBUILD THEIR SECURITIES.

AND SO OUR STUDENTS GO AND HACK INTO THESE SYSTEMS AND IT'S JUST AMAZING TO SEE THEM AT WORK.

SO OUR COLLEGE OF INFORMATICS IS ONE OF OUR GEMS AND IT'S GOING TO CONTINUE TO GROW INTO THE FUTURE.

KELLAR: YEAH, I'VE HEARD THAT.

AND ISN'T IT UNIQUE IN THE COUNTRY?

BROWN: IT IS UNIQUE.

I THINK WE'RE ONE OF THE FIRST OF SIX PROGRAMS OR COLLEGES LIKE THAT IN THE COUNTRY, AND SO THE BUILDING ITSELF IS PHENOMENAL.

WE GIVE PEOPLE TOURS ALL THE TIME AND OUR PROGRAMS ARE JUST TOP OF THE LINE.

AND SO WE ARE PLEASED TO HAVE THIS IN THIS REGION.

AND SO WE'RE LOOKING TO TAKE IT TO THE NEXT LEVEL.

KELLAR: DOESN'T IT REQUIRE A LOT OF STATE OF THE ART EQUIPMENT?

BROWN: IT DOES.

YOU SHOULD SEE THIS BUILDING.

THEY HAVE TICKERS RUNNING ALL AROUND THE BUILDING.

WE HAVE ROOMS THAT JUST HAVE SERVERS AND TV SCREENS.

IT HAS A LOT OF DATA ANALYTICS, COMPUTER SYSTEMS IN THE BUILDING.

IT'S JUST A PHENOMENAL BUILDING JUST TO TOUR AND WALK AROUND AND IT'S BEAUTIFUL.

IT LIGHTS UP AT NIGHT IN DIFFERENT COLORS.

KELLAR: REALLY?

BROWN: I THINK IT'S OUR FIRST GREEN BUILDING, SO IT'S TOTALLY ENERGY EFFICIENT.

IT'S AN AMAZING FACILITY.

KELLAR: IS IT -- ARE YOU FINDING A LOT OF INTEREST IN STUDENTS TO JOIN, TO ENLIST THERE?

BROWN: I THINK WE ENROLL, NOT ENLIST.

KELLAR: RIGHT, NOT ENLIST.

ENROLL.

BROWN: ENROLL.

YES, ALWAYS EXPLAIN WHAT IT IS, INFORMATICS.

I THINK THEY DON'T QUITE KNOW WHAT TO THINK.

BUT WHEN YOU SAY CYBERSECURITY, YEAH, COMPUTER TECHNOLOGY, WHEN YOU SAY THOSE WORDS, THEY KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THAT IS.

KELLAR: AND I WOULD THINK THAT'S CATNIP FOR KIDS.

BROWN: OH, ABSOLUTELY.

ABSOLUTELY.

AND SO, LIKE I SAID, IT'S BEEN DOING WELL AND IT HAS POTENTIAL TO DO EVEN BETTER.

AND WE'RE JUST GOING TO CONTINUE MAKING THAT ONE OF OUR SHINING STARS.

KELLAR: AND HOW MANY KIDS ARE ENROLLED THERE?

BROWN: OH, THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.

I DON'T KNOW THAT I WOULD KNOW THAT OFFHAND BECAUSE WE'VE ADDED SO MANY ONLINE STUDENTS.

BUT PROBABLY OVER 1000, 1200.

KELLAR: OH, HUNDREDS OR THOUSANDS?

BROWN: YEAH, THERE'S PROBABLY A THOUSAND STUDENTS.

KELLAR: WOW.

THEN THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO WRITE THEIR OWN TICKET ONCE THEY GRADUATE.

BROWN: OH, ABSOLUTELY.

THE EMPLOYERS ARE STANDING THERE WAITING FOR THEIR STUDENTS TO FINISH THEIR DEGREES.

KELLAR: ABSOLUTELY, I'M ABSOLUTELY SURE.

IS THERE ONE COLLEGE THAT'S DEAR TO YOUR HEART?

I MEAN, YOU SEEM TO HAVE SORT OF THE RENAISSANCE WOMAN.

YOU'VE DONE IT ALL.

BROWN: I HAVE.

SO, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A LAW SCHOOL, SO OUR SALMON CHASE SCHOOL OF LAW.

KELLAR: OH, I KNOW LOTS OF PEOPLE WHO WENT TO CHASE.

BROWN: SO, I SPENT A LOT OF TIME WITH THE LAW SCHOOL.

THAT'S ONE OF MY FAVORITES.

AND ACTUALLY OUR HEALTH INNOVATION CENTER.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU KNOW ABOUT THAT, BUT WE HAVE AN AMAZING HEALTH INNOVATION CENTER THAT LITERALLY COULD BE STOOD UP AS A HOSPITAL, LIKE, A 30 BED HOSPITAL.

WE HAVE AMAZING SCANNING MACHINES.

WE HAVE A 3D TABLE WHERE STUDENTS CAN SEE THE BODY IN 3D AND PRACTICE AND LEARN THE BODY PARTS.

WE HAVE MANNEQUINS THAT HAVE REAL LIFE EMOTIONS.

THEY CAN CRY, THEY CAN HAVE PAIN, THEY TURN BLUE.

KELLAR: OH, NO.

BROWN: AND STUDENTS GET TO WORK HANDS ON THOSE.

AND SO THAT FACILITY IS FIRST CLASS.

AND SO OUR NURSING PROGRAMS ONLINE AND IN PERSON ARE JUST THAT'S OUR FASTEST GROWTH PROGRAM IS OUR NURSING PROGRAMS.

KELLAR: OH, THANK HEAVEN.

BECAUSE BOY, ARE THEY NEEDED.

BROWN: ABSOLUTELY.

KELLAR: EVERYWHERE YOU GO, NURSES ARE REALLY IN SHORT SUPPLY AND VERY WELL NEEDED.

BROWN: WE ACTUALLY JUST RECEIVED A GRANT TO TRAIN NURSES IN RURAL PARTS OF KENTUCKY.

THAT WAS ABSOLUTELY IN NEED.

AND SO NKU IS ANSWERING THAT CALL.

WE'RE GOING TO PUT TRAINING FACILITIES IN THOSE RURAL COMMUNITIES TO TRAIN THE NURSES FOR THAT AREA.

SO OUR HEALTH INNOVATIONS AREA IS REALLY TAKING OFF.

KELLAR: YEAH.

I UNDERSTOOD THAT YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING IN THE VERY, VERY BAD, HONESTLY.

AND I'VE BEEN IN KENTUCKY AND SOME OF THOSE PLACES AND WHAT YOU'RE DOING THERE IS REALLY, REALLY COMMENDABLE.

AND IS IT JUST NURSING OR ARE THERE OTHER AREAS THAT YOU'RE GOING INTO TO HELP PEOPLE?

BROWN: NURSING IS OUR BIG ONE.

WE'RE DOING STUDIES ON SUBSTANCE ABUSE.

WE'RE DOING THE NARCOTICS.

WE'RE DOING A LOT OF THAT.

KELLAR: AND THE OPIOID PROBLEM.

BROWN: OPIOID EPIDEMIC, YES, WE HAVE A LOT OF RESEARCH PROJECTS ON THAT, BUT WE ALSO HAVE A CENTER IN GRANT COUNTY AND AGAIN, THAT'S IN A RURAL AREA.

AND WE HAD PROGRAMS WE WERE OFFERING THERE, AND SO WE'RE KIND OF RECALIBRATING TO SEE WHAT THEY NEED, WHAT THEY WANT AND WHAT WE CAN OFFER THERE.

AND SO WE'RE GOING TO BE VERY INTENTIONAL ABOUT REACHING OUT TO OUR RURAL AREAS.

KELLAR: YEAH.

AND DO YOU RECRUIT YOUR STUDENTS FROM THERE OR DO YOU SEND YOUR STUDENTS FROM NKU TO THESE AREAS?

BROWN: WELL, WE PUT THE PROGRAM THERE BECAUSE THEY WANT IT IN THAT COMMUNITY.

AND SO WE HAVE PROGRAMS THERE AND THEN THOSE STUDENTS CAN COME TO THE MAIN CAMPUS AS WELL.

WE DON'T REALLY OFFER THE MAIN CAMPUS COURSES THERE THAT THEY HAVE TO GO THERE.

AND SO IT'S REALLY FOR THEM TO HAVE THEIR COURSES RIGHT THERE AND THEN THEY COME TO CAMPUS FOR THEIR OTHER SERVICES.

KELLAR: AND DO YOU HAVE UNDERWRITERS FOR SCHOLARSHIPS?

BECAUSE I DON'T IMAGINE THEY WOULD HAVE COLLEGE MONEY.

BROWN: WELL, WHEN THEY APPLY TO NKU, THEY HAVE THEIR PELL MONEY IF THEY'RE ELIGIBLE, WHICH IS FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

AND THEN THERE'S A STATE SUPPLEMENT, THEIR KEYS MONEY FROM THE STATE.

AND THAT GENERALLY, IF YOU'RE OF A CERTAIN INCOME, THAT COVERS YOUR TUITION.

KELLAR: OH, GOOD.

BROWN: SO, RIGHT.

SO IF WE CAN GET THEM TO DO THOSE TWO PARTS, THEIR TUITION IS USUALLY COVERED.

AND THEN WE HAVE UNIVERSITY SCHOLARSHIPS AND THOSE SCHOLARSHIPS ARE APPLICABLE TO ANY STUDENT THAT APPLIES.

KELLAR: YEAH, BECAUSE DO YOU WORRY THAT THOSE KIDS WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO EVEN BEGIN TO THINK ABOUT COLLEGE TUITION.

SO YOU WANT -- YOU WANT.

WELL, WHAT ABOUT EDUCATION?

DO YOU HAVE ANY PROGRAMS IN THOSE SAME AREAS WITH EDUCATION?

BROWN: WE DO NOT, BUT WE HAVE A COLLEGE OF EDUCATION.

AND AGAIN, WE'RE WORKING WITH THAT COLLEGE TO INCREASE THEIR ENROLLMENT.

I'M SURE YOU'VE HEARD THE TEACHING PROFESSION IS NOT AS APPEALING TO STUDENTS AS IT USED TO BE.

AND SO WE'RE REALLY WORKING WITH THEM TO KIND OF REBRAND WHAT TEACHING IS AND WHAT IT DOES AND WHAT YOU CAN GET OUT OF IT.

SO WITH THAT PROGRAM, WE ARE BUILDING IT.

WE DON'T HAVE IT IN THE RURAL AREAS YET, BUT THAT'S SOMETHING I THINK WE PROBABLY WILL HAVE TO CONSIDER GOING FORWARD.

KELLAR: YEAH, I JUST READ WITH HORROR THAT THE STATE OF OHIO IS THINKING OF RAISING THE MINIMUM WAGE FOR STARTING TEACHERS FROM $30,000 TO $40,000.

AND ALL I COULD THINK WAS $30,000 FOR A TEACHER?

I MEAN, THAT'S JUST BREATH -- THAT JUST LEAVES YOU BREATHLESS.

$30,000 IS, I MEAN, THEY'VE SPENT FOUR YEARS IN COLLEGE AND MAYBE HAVE SOME STUDENT DEBT OR WHATEVER, BUT HOW CAN YOU LIVE IN A CITY ESPECIALLY FOR $30,000 A YEAR AND YOU'RE AN EDUCATOR?

OH, MY GOSH.

WE'RE PUTTING OUR KIDS IN THE HANDS OF PEOPLE WHO WERE SAYING, "WELL, THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE WORTH."

BUT AT LEAST THEY'RE TRYING TO PASS THIS, NOW THEY'LL MAKE $40,000.

BUT I WAS SHOCKED.

I WAS A TEACHER, THAT'S WHY.

BROWN: OH, WOW.

KELLAR: YEAH.

AND I, OH, MY GOODNESS.

THAT IS REALLY -- THAT IS REALLY SAD.

BROWN: YEAH.

AND THAT'S A HARD SELL FOR THE STUDENTS.

AND SO THAT'S WHY WE ARE CHALLENGED IN THAT AREA.

BUT WE'RE HOPING WE CAN WORK WITH, AGAIN, THE WHOLE STATE JUST TO VALUE THAT EDUCATION, THAT TEACHER ROLE, AND AGAIN, GIVE THEM A LIVABLE WAGE THAT MAKES THE PROFESSION ATTRACTIVE.

BUT THERE ARE PROGRAMS, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE LOANS CAN BE FORGIVEN IF THEY WORK IN CERTAIN AREAS AS A TEACHER.

SO THERE ARE THINGS OUT THERE, BUT THAT IS DEFINITELY SOMETHING WHERE WE NEED TO PAY A LITTLE BIT MORE ATTENTION TO THE SALARY THAT THOSE TEACHERS RECEIVE.

KELLAR: YEAH.

AND WHAT ARE THE OTHER COLLEGES?

BROWN: OH, WE HAVE A COLLEGE OF ARTS AND SCIENCES, AND THAT'S ALL YOUR PSYCHOLOGIES, YOUR ALL YOUR OLOGIES IS WHAT I CALL THEM.

AND OUR SCHOOL, OUR SOTA, SCHOOL OF THEATER AND ARTS.

WE HAVE AN AMAZING ARTS PROGRAM.

I TOOK A TOUR OF THAT BUILDING ACTUALLY TODAY.

WE HAVE LIKE THREE BIG STAGES WHERE WE DO DANCE PERFORMANCES, ORCHESTRA, YOU NAME IT, PLAYS AND THEATERS.

MY HUSBAND ACTUALLY IS IN SCHOOL AT NKU.

KELLAR: OH, HE IS.

OH, MY GOSH.

BROWN: HE IS A PHOTOGRAPHY MAJOR.

AND SO I HAVE SEEN THE STUDIOS THAT THEY GET TO WORK IN AND HE'S ACTUALLY GRADUATING IN MAY, SO I'M VERY EXCITED.

KELLAR: YOU GET TO -- BROWN: I GET TO GIVE HIS DIPLOMA.

KELLAR: OH, MY GOODNESS.

OH, THAT'S FABULOUS.

I LOVE IT.

BROWN: I TOLD HIM WE COULDN'T HAVE SCRIPTED THIS STORY ANY BETTER.

KELLAR: NO, NO, NO.

BROWN: SO, YES, HE WILL RECEIVE HIS PHOTOGRAPHY DEGREE.

I WILL BE ON STAGE HANDING HIM HIS DIPLOMA.

OUR FAMILIES ARE COMING IN TOWN, AND WE'RE JUST REALLY EXCITED BECAUSE AS AN ADULT STUDENT, HE WAS A LITTLE NERVOUS ABOUT GOING BACK TO SCHOOL.

BUT HE SAID AT NKU EVERYONE MADE HIM FEEL WELCOME, THE FACULTY MEMBERS, THE STUDENTS LOVED HAVING HIM IN CLASS BECAUSE OF HIS EXPERIENCE.

KELLAR: YEAH.

WELL, I LEARNED FROM WELL, JOHN HENDERSON, WHO WAS PRESIDENT OF CINCINNATI STATE AND WILBERFORCE BEFORE THAT.

HE SAID "NONTRADITIONAL STUDENTS."

AND I AFTER, I SAID, "WELL, I NOW UNDERSTAND NONTRADITIONAL MEANS OLD."

BROWN: I TEASE HIM ALL THE TIME, "YOU'RE THE OLD GUY IN CLASS."

KELLAR: THE NON TRADITIONAL, HE'S AN OLD GUY.

BROWN: BUT YEAH, HE LOVED THE EXPERIENCE.

HE HELPS OTHER STUDENTS NAVIGATE, NOT ONLY CLASS, BUT LIFE ISSUES.

SOMETIMES THOSE STUDENTS JUST NEED ANOTHER ADULT TO TALK TO, AND HE'S FILLED THAT ROLE.

SO HE'S EXCITED TO FINALLY BE ABLE TO EARN HIS DEGREE.

HE JUST WASN'T ABLE TO WHEN HE WAS YOUNGER.

HE WAS FROM SOUTH CAROLINA AND DURING THAT TIME THEY PRETTY MUCH WERE TRACKING STUDENTS TO TECHNICAL SCHOOLS AND HE JUST DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT THE OTHER COLLEGE OPPORTUNITIES THAT WERE OUT THERE.

AND SO WHEN WE MET AND GOT MARRIED, HE WAS LIKE, "I WANT TO GET A DEGREE."

AND I WAS LIKE, "YOU DO?"

I SAID, "THIS IS PERFECT."

AND SO HE APPLIED, HE GOT IN AND -- KELLAR: I'M SURPRISED HE GOT IN.

BROWN: ME TOO.

ME TOO.

YEAH, BUT HE DID.

AND TO BE ABLE TO GRADUATE FROM NKU, WE'RE BOTH JUST HONORED THAT HE'S ABLE TO DO THAT.

AND SO, YES, MAY 7TH, WE WILL BE ON STAGE.

KELLAR: OH, MY GOSH.

DOES HE HAVE A JOB LINED UP IN THAT AREA OR IS HE -- BROWN: HE'S OPENING HIS OWN STUDIO.

KELLAR: OH, MY GOSH.

BROWN: HE'S AN AMAZING PHOTOGRAPHER.

HE'S GOING TO OPEN HIS STUDIO AND HE SAYS HE DOES EVERYTHING BUT WEDDINGS.

SO EVENTS, HEADSHOTS, CORPORATE BROCHURES, HE DOES ALL OF THAT.

AND SO WE'RE EXCITED ABOUT OPENING HIS STUDIO.

KELLAR: YEAH, NOT WEDDINGS BECAUSE THAT'S TOO STRESSFUL?

BROWN: TOO STRESSFUL, AND THE BRIDEZILLAS.

KELLAR: OH, BRIDEZILLAS.

I'VE WATCHED THAT SHOW.

BROWN: YES.

KELLAR: OH, NO.

BROWN: HE DOESN'T WANT TO DEAL WITH THAT, SO EVERYTHING ELSE.

KELLAR: HE'S GOT A BRIDEZILLA AT HOME.

BROWN: YES, HE DOES.

KELLAR: YEAH.

HE'S GOT ENOUGH OF A BRIDEZILLA.

HE'S GOT IT.

YEAH.

NO.

THEN HE SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO VERY WELL THEN.

BROWN: OH, YES.

KELLAR: OH, THAT'S FABULOUS.

DO YOU HAVE CHILDREN?

BROWN: WE DO.

WE HAVE TWO ADULT CHILDREN.

KELLAR: REALLY?

BROWN: YES.

KELLAR: YOU DON'T LOOK LIKE YOU COULD HAVE ADULT CHILDREN.

BROWN: THANK YOU.

I WILL TAKE THAT.

KELLAR: HOW OLD ARE THEY?

BROWN: 22 AND 23.

KELLAR: AND WHERE ARE THEY?

ARE THEY IN SCHOOL STILL?

BROWN: ONE SON GRADUATED FROM MORGAN STATE UNIVERSITY WITH A DEGREE IN MARKETING.

HE ENLISTED IN THE ARMY.

SO HE'S ON OFFICER TRACK IN THE MILITARY.

AND OUR DAUGHTER LIVES IN SOUTH CAROLINA.

AND RIGHT NOW SHE'S SUBSTITUTE TEACHING IN HIGH SCHOOLS.

AND SO SHE'S TRYING THAT TO SEE IF SHE WANTS TO GET HER TEACHING DEGREE.

KELLAR: IF SHE WANTS TO OR NOT.

BROWN: SHE DOES -- WELL, SHE'S TRYING TO DECIDE, SO WE SHALL SEE.

KELLAR: AND I'M SURE THEY'RE VERY PROUD OF MOM.

BROWN: OH, YES.

KELLAR: AND WELL, THEY I'M SURE THEY'LL BE COMING WHEN DAD GETS HIS DIPLOMA.

BROWN: OH, YES, EVERYBODY'S COMING IN TOWN, SO WE WILL HAVE A GREAT TIME.

KELLAR: YOU WILL HAVE.

SO HAVE WE TALKED ABOUT ALL THE DIFFERENT COLLEGES?

DID I MISSED ONE?

BROWN: ARTS AND SCIENCES, I'M SURE -- OH, OUR COLLEGE OF BUSINESS.

OUR COLLEGE OF BUSINESS, THAT ONE'S VERY IMPORTANT.

AGAIN, THAT COLLEGE ALSO IS DOING VERY WELL.

WE HAVE NATIONALLY ACCREDITED PROGRAMS WHICH ARE RARE FOR A LOT OF SCHOOLS TO HAVE THOSE.

WE HAVE MBA PROGRAMS NOW THAT ARE ONLINE.

WE HAVE SOME PROGRAMS IN OTHER COUNTRIES FOR MBAS, AND SO -- KELLAR: REALLY?

BROWN: REALLY.

KELLAR: HOW DOES THAT WORK?

BROWN: OUR DEAN WAS ABLE TO TRAVEL TO UNIVERSITIES OVERSEAS AND THEY WANT THEIR STUDENTS TO BE EDUCATED AT A UNITED STATES UNIVERSITY.

AND SO WE WENT OVER THERE AND WE PITCHED OUR DEGREE AND THEY SAID, "YES, WE'LL SEND STUDENTS TO COLLEGE AND ONLINE TO GET THEIR MBA DEGREE."

AND SO WE HAVE SOME OF THOSE PROGRAMS THAT WE'RE VERY EXCITED ABOUT.

KELLAR: IN WHAT PLACES.

BROWN: UH, I DON'T KNOW IF I RECALL THAT RIGHT OFF HAND, BUT WE DO HAVE SEVERAL INTERNATIONAL.

THE DEAN ACTUALLY SAID HE WAS GOING TO INDIA IN A COUPLE OF WEEKS TO TRY TO GET A COUPLE OF MORE PROGRAMS.

KELLAR: WELL, THAT WOULD BE -- I MEAN, THAT'S A PLACE WHERE YOU COULD REALLY IMPROVE.

I MEAN, THEY HAVE SO MANY PEOPLE AND SO MANY OPPORTUNITIES.

I MEAN, THAT WOULD BE REALLY, REALLY GREAT.

BROWN: ABSOLUTELY, AND TO THINK THAT THEY'RE GOING TO STUDY AT NORTHERN KENTUCKY UNIVERSITY IS PHENOMENAL.

AND SO OUR FACULTY MEMBERS ARE EXCITED.

AND SO, YEAH, THE COLLEGE OF BUSINESS IS ACTUALLY UP AND MOVING AND IT'S -- WE'RE VERY PROUD OF THE PARTNERSHIPS.

AND THEY HAVE A MARKETING PROGRAM WHERE SOME OF OUR STUDENTS ARE WORKING WITH CINCINNATI CORPORATIONS TO DO THEIR MARKETING CAMPAIGNS FOR THEM.

SO THEY'RE GETTING REAL HANDS ON EXPERIENCE DOING THE MARKETING RIGHT NOW WHILE THEY'RE STUDENTS.

AND SOME OF THEM HAVE GOTTEN JOBS OUT OF THAT PROJECT.

SO THAT'S A AMAZING PARTNERSHIP WE HAVE WITH CORPORATIONS.

KELLAR: YEAH.

A FEW YEARS AGO WE DID -- I KNOW ABOUT YOUR MUSICAL THEATER BECAUSE I'VE GONE TO A COUPLE OF THE PRODUCTIONS, WHICH WERE WONDERFUL.

AND THEN WE HAD SOME SINGERS, SOME PERFORMERS FROM NKU PERFORM ON SHOWCASE, AND THEY WERE WONDERFUL.

BROWN: THEY'RE PHENOMENAL.

KELLAR: YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.

BROWN: I ATTENDED AN EVENT JUST TWO WEEKS AGO WHERE THEY WERE DOING RODGERS AND HAMMERSTEIN MUSIC AND THEY SAID THEY LEARNED IT IN THREE WEEKS AND THEY DID LIKE 20 OF HIS SONGS.

KELLAR: WOW.

BROWN: I WAS BLOWN AWAY AT THE SKILL LEVEL OF OUR STUDENTS.

WE HAVE PHENOMENAL STUDENTS IN OUR ARTS PROGRAM.

KELLAR: DID THEY DO IT FOR A SPECIFIC SHOW OR JUST AS A PROJECT.

BROWN: THEY HAD A SHOW.

IT WAS LIKE A WEEK LONG SHOW, SO THEY HAD TO SING THESE 20 SONGS BACK TO BACK FOR A WEEK, AND THEY LEARNED IT IN A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME.

AND THEY WERE JUST -- THEY'RE PHENOMENAL.

ONE OF THEM IS GOING ON TOUR WITH A NATIONAL COMPANY SINGING AND DOING ACTING, AND SO THEY'RE JUST LEADING THEM TO AMAZING CAREERS.

KELLAR: AND ARE THEY STILL DOING FULL, I MEAN, I'M SURE PANDEMIC THEY DIDN'T DO ANYTHING.

ARE THEY BACK TO FULL PRODUCTIONS?

BROWN: THEY ARE, FULL PRODUCTION IN PERSON.

IN FACT, THIS WEEKEND THERE'S A DANCE PERFORMANCE GOING ON IN ONE OF THE THEATERS.

AND I'M GOING TO SEE OUR STUDENT DANCERS PERFORM IN THAT.

SO, YES, IF ANYBODY WANTS TO COME, THERE ARE SHOWS TAKING PLACE ON CAMPUS.

KELLAR: RIGHT.

I'M SURE YOU HAVE LOTS OF STUDENTS FROM HERE ACROSS THE RIVER.

BUT DO YOU HAVE STUDENTS FROM ALL OVER THE COUNTRY?

BROWN: OH, WE DO, BUT MOSTLY WE'RE A REGIONAL COMPREHENSIVE UNIVERSITY, SO WE REALLY LIKE TO FOCUS ON THIS REGION.

SO MOST OF OUR STUDENTS, OF COURSE, ARE FROM KENTUCKY, BUT WE HAVE OHIO AND INDIANA, AND WE DO HAVE SEVERAL INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS THAT COME FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD.

AND WE'RE SLOWLY EXPANDING.

BUT WE REALLY CONCENTRATE ON THIS REGION BECAUSE WE BELIEVE WE HAVE -- OUR MISSION IS TO EDUCATE STUDENTS FOR THIS REGION TO HELP AND BUILD AND GROW OUR ECONOMY.

AND OVER 80% OF OUR ALUMNI STAY RIGHT HERE IN THIS AREA.

KELLAR: WELL, THAT'S GREAT.

THAT'S AMAZING.

THEY DON'T GET THEIR EDUCATION AND LEAVE.

THAT'S A BIG PROBLEM.

BROWN: THAT'S RIGHT.

THEY STAY HERE.

AND SO WE TELL THE CORPORATIONS, INVESTING WITH US, WORKING WITH US IS GOING TO BUILD OUT THIS REGION BECAUSE THEY DO STAY.

KELLAR: YEAH, THAT'S REALLY A FEATHER IN YOUR CAP THAT THEY STAY AROUND.

AND I REALLY LOVE THE IDEA THAT YOU GO DOWN INTO KENTUCKY AND THE APPALACHIA AND HELP THOSE PEOPLE, BECAUSE I SOMETIMES THINK THAT THEY ARE SORT OF LOST AND FORGOTTEN.

BROWN: YEAH.

KELLAR: AND THERE SURELY MUST BE A LOT OF POTENTIAL THERE.

BROWN: IT IS, AND THAT'S WHY I WENT INTO EDUCATION.

I BELIEVE IT IS THE KEY FACTOR THAT CAN CHANGE PEOPLE'S LIVES.

AND SO I TELL PEOPLE I'M VERY PASSIONATE ABOUT IT.

MY MOTHER WAS A TEACHER AS WELL.

AND SO I GREW UP KNOWING THAT EDUCATION WAS IMPORTANT.

AND SO WORKING AT THIS LEVEL, YOU SEE HOW IT CAN CHANGE PEOPLE'S LIVES AND PUT THEIR WHOLE FAMILIES ON A DIFFERENT PATH.

AND SO YOU'RE RIGHT, BEING ABLE TO REACH INTO ALL OF THOSE AREAS, I BELIEVE, IS WHAT'S NEEDED REALLY ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

KELLAR: YOU'RE A LAWYER.

YOU HAVE A LAW DEGREE.

DID YOU EVER PRACTICE LAW?

BROWN: I DID IN-HOUSE ATTORNEY WORK FOR A CORPORATION IN D.C. THAT WAS BASED IN CANADA.

VERY ODD, BUT IT WAS A VERY UNIQUE COMPANY.

WE SOLD SATELLITE TECHNOLOGY AND IT WAS SO BIZARRE.

KELLAR: YEAH.

BROWN: BUT I WAS DOING CONTRACTS AND NEGOTIATING DEALS WITH GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS.

AND SO THAT'S THE MOST LAW THAT I PRACTICED WAS BEING AN IN-HOUSE ATTORNEY FOR THAT CORPORATION.

KELLAR: YEAH, BUT YOU MUST HAVE LEARNED A LOT FROM THAT.

BROWN: I DID.

I DID.

AGAIN, I LEARNED AGAIN A LOT OF THE GOVERNMENT REGULATIONS AND THE CFRS AND I LEARNED A LOT ABOUT THE GOVERNMENT WORK.

THAT WAS FASCINATING.

KELLAR: YEAH.

BROWN: THEN JUST DEALING WITH PEOPLE FROM AROUND THE WORLD.

AGAIN, I HAD COLLEAGUES THAT WERE IN CANADA AND NEWFOUNDLAND, CANADA, I HAD COLLEAGUES IN MEXICO, HAD COLLEAGUES ALL AROUND THE WORLD, AND THAT WAS FASCINATING.

KELLAR: YEAH.

DID YOU EVER ACTUALLY TEACH IN A CLASSROOM?

BROWN: I TAUGHT ONE GRADUATE CLASS WHEN I WAS IN GREENSBORO, NORTH CAROLINA.

I TAUGHT THE LAW OF HIGHER EDUCATION.

PEOPLE THINK COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES ARE, I GUESS, VERY ONE DIMENSIONAL.

WE'RE VERY MULTI DIMENSIONAL.

AND SO EVERY ASPECT OF LAW IMPACTS THE UNIVERSITY.

I MEAN, I'VE HAD DEALINGS WITH THE EPA, THE FBI.

KELLAR: ALL THE LETTERS.

BROWN: ALL THE ALPHABET SOUP.

WE HAVE EMPLOYMENT, TRADEMARK, PATENT, YOU NAME IT.

EVERY AREA OF LAW IMPACTS A UNIVERSITY.

SO I TAUGHT THAT CLASS AND I REALLY ENJOYED IT.

KELLAR: OH, I WANTED TO ASK YOU ABOUT BASKETBALL.

BROWN: OH, BASKETBALL.

KELLAR: BASKETBALL, YES.

WE WERE SO EXCITED.

TELL US ABOUT THE BASKETBALL PROGRAM.

BROWN: THAT WAS AMAZING.

WE HAD AN AMAZING BASKETBALL SEASON.

OUR COACH, DARREN HORN, HAS PUT TOGETHER -- HE PUT TOGETHER A VERY STRONG TEAM, NOT ONLY ON THE COURT, BUT THEY'RE VERY GOOD MEN.

THEY'RE VERY WELL, WELL BEHAVED, VERY RESPECTFUL.

AND SO THEY REALLY HAD A RIDE THIS YEAR WITH THOSE WINS.

THEY WON THE HORIZON TOURNAMENT, WENT ON TO THE NCAA TOURNAMENT, AND REALLY JUST LEFT THEIR HEART ON THE FLOOR.

AND WE WERE SO PROUD OF THEM, EVEN WHEN THEY LOST EVERYBODY STILL -- WE FELT LIKE WE WON.

YES, WE FELT LIKE WE WON BECAUSE THEY REALLY, REALLY DID AN AMAZING JOB AND OUR WHOLE FAN BASE RALLIED AROUND US.

IT WAS JUST A GREAT ENERGY THAT WAS NEEDED ALL ACROSS CAMPUS.

IT WAS GREAT.

KELLAR: DID YOU GET TO GO TO THE GAMES?

BROWN: EVERY ONE OF THEM.

EVERY ONE OF THEM.

KELLAR: I CAN'T REMEMBER, WHERE WERE THEY?

BROWN: SO THE HORIZON TOURNAMENT WAS PLAYED IN INDIANAPOLIS.

AND SO WE WENT THERE AND WE CELEBRATED THAT WIN.

AND THEN THE NCAA TOURNAMENT WAS IN BIRMINGHAM AND WE PLAYED THE UNIVERSITY OF HOUSTON, WHO WAS RANKED NUMBER ONE.

KELLAR: NUMBER ONE.

OH, I WATCHED THAT.

YES.

OH, YEAH, I KNOW, BUT I DIDN'T REMEMBER WHERE THEY WERE.

YES, WE WERE AND THEY WERE RANKED NUMBER ONE AND WE GAVE THEM A RUN FOR THEIR MONEY.

THEIR COACH WAS VERY WORRIED.

KELLAR: YES, BUT IMAGINE PULLING THE NUMBER ONE.

NO.

BROWN: IT WOULD HAVE BEEN AMAZING, BUT IT STILL WAS AMAZING.

THAT WHOLE JOURNEY WAS AMAZING.

WE'RE VERY PROUD OF OUR BASKETBALL PROGRAM.

AND I TOLD THE COACH, I'M EAGER TO SEE WHAT WE DO THIS SEASON.

NO PRESSURE, BUT I WANT TO SEE WHAT WE DO THIS SEASON.

KELLAR: DOES HE HAVE SOME PEOPLE COMING BACK?

BROWN: HE DOES, HE HAS A CORE THAT'S COMING BACK.

AND THEN HE HAD SEVERAL NEW RECRUITS JUST SIGNED ON IN THE PAST COUPLE OF WEEKS.

KELLAR: WOW.

YEAH.

BECAUSE I KNOW IN THE IN THE DISTANT PAST WHEN THE BEARCATS WERE, YOU KNOW, MIGHTY THAT WE USED TO PLAY NKU.

AND I GUESS FOR TV RIGHTS OR SOMETHING, I'M NOT SURE WHY, BUT IT'S COME A LONG WAY.

THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY.

BROWN: WELL, I JUST HAVE TO PUT IT IN THERE, WE BEAT UC THIS YEAR.

YES, WE DID.

I'M SURE THEY WERE NOT HAPPY ABOUT THAT, BUT THAT STARTED OUR RIDE RIGHT THERE.

KELLAR: YEAH, BUT THAT'S -- THEY SHOULD TAKE A LESSON FROM THAT.

BROWN: YES, THEY SHOULD, TAKE NOTES.

KELLAR: SOMETHING'S WRONG HERE.

YES.

RIGHT.

WELL, I LOVE YOUR TEAM, AS WELL AS MY OWN BEARCATS.

AND WE ALL ARE THRILLED WITH THEIR SUCCESS.

AND YOU'RE JUST A BRIGHT AND SHINING STAR.

BROWN: THANK YOU.

KELLAR: OH, MY GOSH.

WE'RE GOING TO FOLLOW YOUR SUCCESS AND HOPE YOU'LL STAY AT NKU IN OUR OWN AREA AND JUST A REALLY GREAT ASSET.

BROWN: THANK YOU.

THIS HAS BEEN GREAT.

I'VE ENJOYED YOUR QUESTIONS AND YOUR ENTHUSIASM AS WELL.

NKU IS AN AMAZING SCHOOL, AGAIN, WE'RE THE HOME OF OVER 15,000 STUDENTS.

I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T KNOW THAT.

WE HAVE OVER 15,000 STUDENTS, TONS OF DEGREE PROGRAMS.

WE TELL PEOPLE THAT OUR FUTURE FOR NKU IS BRIGHT AND THAT WE BELIEVE WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO PROVIDE PROGRAMS FOR ANYBODY WHO WANTS TO COME TO SCHOOL ALMOST IN ANY MODE THEY WANT TO COME.

YOU CAN COME IN PERSON, YOU CAN COME ONLINE, YOU CAN BE HYBRID, ANY WAY YOU WANT TO ENGAGE, WE'RE TRYING TO BE ABLE TO PROVIDE THAT.

AND SO WE BELIEVE THAT AS A REGIONAL UNIVERSITY, THAT'S WHAT OUR MISSION IS AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO.

KELLAR: IT SOUNDS GOOD TO ME.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

YOU'RE JUST WONDERFUL.

AND I WISH YOU THE BEST, AND YOUR HUSBAND, YES.

BROWN: YES.

KELLAR: AND YOU'RE A GREAT ASSET TO OUR COMMUNITY.

BROWN: RIGHT.

WELL, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

I HAVE ENJOYED THIS CONVERSATION.

GO, NORSE.

KELLAR: YES.

RIGHT.

THANK YOU.

BROWN: THANK YOU.

ANNOUNCER: JOIN US NEXT WEEK FOR ANOTHER EPISODE OF SHOWCASE WITH BARBARA KELLAR RIGHT HERE ON CET.

CAPTIONS: MAVERICK CAPTIONING CIN OH MAVERICKCAPTIONING.COM